Resources Debunking the Claims of the first part of the movie Zeitgeist"A Scholarly Response to the Movie Zeitgeist" with Douglas Hamp (Click to listen to the February 22, 2008 Kwave broadcast)
Click to view Power Point Presentation with notes
| What is Zeitgeist?I was approached by KWVE (Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa) to give a scholarly response to the Movie Zeitgeist. The movie is in three parts espousing a string of conspiracy theories. I found part three provocative and in a respects it echoed the prophecy of the number of the Beast as found in Revelation 13. However, part one asserts that Jesus Christ is just one of numerous solar messiahs who all share similar characteristics such as born on December 25, to a virgin, had 12 disciples, was crucified, buried and resurrected. A study of primary source documents easily proves otherwise. Why is this important?The movie Zeitgeist is making inroads to over 700 campuses nationwide and hence many will could be led astray by this movies false claims. Resources for further investigation
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Thursday, March 13, 2008
Zeitgeist the Movie: A rebuttal to part 1
Zeitgeist the Movie part one makes some pretty bold but unfounded claims regarding the deity of Jesus Christ.
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14 comments:
From youtube..
Ricky2112
I love how everyone is more worried about the myth of Jesus, than they are about the US gov planning and executed 9/11.
for the answers to this guy's claims:
ZeitgeistMovie [dot] com (fwd slash) q&a [dot] htm
Nothing in Zeitgeist can be proven wrong.
Faith is not proof, nor is the bible.
There are NO primary sources for the bible. Not one. Not a SINGLE primary source for the historicity of Jesus.
aakkoin
He talked a lot, but didn't say anything. Much like politicians.
xJohnGx
assertions that are not true? primary source for bible....lol, dec 25 turns out to be an ok date?, so we can warm up in the cold..matter of tradition???? christians dont believe in the number 3???? and then you say the information in the bible is not accurate for the number of kings, but we know for sure, that she was a virgin!!! wow. so whats real and not real in the bible? adam and eve? 7 day theory? heaven hell? water to wine? 3 kings? maybe 2 kings? how do YOU know whats real or not???
very good......check out my video blog!!
freedom0f5peech
Funny how all who try to disprove this have some kind of faith (look up the meaning of the word "faith" in the dictionary). It means to believe something without evidence.
You won't find any scientists, archeologists, or anthropologists (those who are experts in studying these things) arguing against ANYTHING in the first part of Zeitgeist.
Religious zealots has INVESTED interest in keeping information suppressed. Professional archeologists have no interest in suppression, or disinformation, they are only interested in facts.
If you get a peer reviewed scientific archeological study, I'll watch and listen. I'm not interested in preaching".
Enjoy the new video:
"ZEITGEIST, Part 1" Debunked? Video Response
Zeitgeist part 1 Companion Guide
Blog
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If you truly believed that you everything you've learned about your religion is true, then you wouldn't have to make a movie trying to contradict Zeitgeist. You would be confident enough in your faith to just let the movie pass you by knowing you won't lose any followers over it. But you made the video instead, showing me that you are afraid that people will give into the staggering amount of coincidences between Jesus Christ and other solarly misiahs.
There are so many movies about the government being corrupt, hollywood movies, and zeitgeist type movies. But you don't see the government making rebuttles for everyone do you?
i going to tell you this.. i am a fan of this movie but i do find some "theories" not well researched. I do believe that we are in a carelss age.. remember that term.. we are in the age of pisces on record and research.. the traits of pisces is as follows:
-gullible/misled
-spiritual
-gentle
-sensitive
-selfless
-versatile
-imaginative/artistically able
-compassionate/sympathetic
Do these coincidences, or illusion of coincidence, ring beels of thought... that is good for a scholar like you. i admire your work but humans in this age are doomed to not knw wat to believe and being selfless dont knw themselves and do what other people tell them to.. and yet we care very much of our world and created brilliant innovations and inventions. i am not here to say zeitgeist is all truth but there is a greater phenomenom beyond the bibles, textbooks, and stories we read today in the news and in entertainment. I will say thank you for time with you researching the Age of Aquarius.. why do u have to? simply to keep your curiousity for being human healthy and i will like to hear back from you. my email is:
whoisdjpoppa@aim.com
Again thank you for your virtuous work and time..
please Ineed the power point and Ican´t save mi msn is 7nutok@gmail.com
Thanks from South america
First, thanks for your mature and scholarly-based rebuttal to the Zeitgeist film. I myself enjoyed the film, found it provacative, but also found some of the conjectures suspect and wanted to hear another side. Most of what I found online was immature, religous zeal and condemnation with no fact-based counter-argument. In critique of your rebuttal, I will agree with you that the comparisions drawn between the 'solar gods' are exaggerated and there does not seem to be good references for many of the claims. The Jewish rams horn/Age of Aires conjecture is also weak. However, you go on to deny any astrological significance in the Bible. The Bible itself says "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
- Genesis 1:14. This should at the very least demonstrate that astrological significance is not a bad thing. Furthermore, there are repeating numbers in the Bible that lack alternative explanation. 12: 12 disciples, 12 tribes, 12 brothers, etc. 3: 3 gifts of the magi, 3 days until the resurrection, 3 women at the cross, etc. I understand your desire to counter the claim that Jesus did not exist at all, but I don't understand your broader confrontation on the astrological aspects. Why and how do you see this as an opposition to your faith??
Dear Pastor,
Thank you for taking the time to research and provide this rebuttal. I too had criticisms of the movie Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist addendum. Some of my own criticisms fall in line with yours (over generalizations and simplification of a profound Mystery indeed...as well as careless documentation of some facts). My main criticism was that they were throwing the baby out with the bath water (part 1). To throw out the truth of the Gospels and the prophetic and historic significance of the mystery of Christ, what took place 2000 years ago giving birth to the "Christian Era" ...and what is taking place today in fulfillment of this very mystery
as one big fabricated lie...is short sighted to say the least. We should always ask ourselves if our view of a topic is loaded with so much fervor that it skewes our objectivity. (On both sides)As a student of Egypt and early writings Pastor...I would like to know if you are familiar with Hermetic teachings. Hermetic teachers claimed to have the inner key to the understanding of the gospels. They claimed their teachings came from Egypt and NEVER claimed that the story of Christianity was false....only that it was misunderstood and bigger/older than we know. Anyway...the Church hired "experts" in the 1400's to prove the hermetic texts as forgeries. These "experts" found that the writings were written in the 3rd century CE and therefore represented Greek wisdom and not egyptian. This was until the rosetta stone was translated. The doctrines in the Hermetica were identical with those in the heiroglyphics at Saqqara...proving the authenticity of the hermetica. Hermes Mercurious the Thrice majestic (the Man-God) was always represented by the number 888. Jesus in Greek is numerically equivilent to 888. i am pointing toward the point that.....there could be more than what we were taught about this profound mystery...and yet this does not mean that Christianity has to be a lie as the zeitgeist author claims. Please inquire if you have the time at the website www.revelation2seven.org where (I hope) you will find many well researched ideas and concepts. Also consider that the Gospels can have multi dimensional, kabbalistic, even astrological interpretations and be historically true at the same time.
In Christ Jesus
Michael
Dear Pastor,
Thank you for taking the time to research and provide this rebuttal. I too had criticisms of the movie Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist addendum. Some of my own criticisms fall in line with yours (over generalizations and simplification of a profound Mystery indeed...as well as careless documentation of some facts). My main criticism was that they were throwing the baby out with the bath water (part 1). To throw out the truth of the Gospels and the prophetic and historic significance of the mystery of Christ, what took place 2000 years ago giving birth to the "Christian Era" ...and what is taking place today in fulfillment of this very mystery
as one big fabricated lie...is short sighted to say the least. We should always ask ourselves if our view of a topic is loaded with so much fervor that it skewes our objectivity. (On both sides)As a student of Egypt and early writings Pastor...I would like to know if you are familiar with Hermetic teachings. Hermetic teachers claimed to have the inner key to the understanding of the gospels. They claimed their teachings came from Egypt and NEVER claimed that the story of Christianity was false....only that it was misunderstood and bigger/older than we know. Anyway...the Church hired "experts" in the 1400's to prove the hermetic texts as forgeries. These "experts" found that the writings were written in the 3rd century CE and therefore represented Greek wisdom and not egyptian. This was until the rosetta stone was translated. The doctrines in the Hermetica were identical with those in the heiroglyphics at Saqqara...proving the authenticity of the hermetica. Hermes Mercurious the Thrice majestic (the Man-God) was always represented by the number 888. Jesus in Greek is numerically equivilent to 888. i am pointing toward the point that.....there could be more than what we were taught about this profound mystery...and yet this does not mean that Christianity has to be a lie as the zeitgeist author claims. Please inquire if you have the time at the website www.revelation2seven.org where (I hope) you will find many well researched ideas and concepts. Also consider that the Gospels can have multi dimensional, kabbalistic, even astrological interpretations and be historically true at the same time.
In Christ Jesus
Michael
Did you really just use the line "We, as Christians, do not believe in the number three?" as a "scholarly response"?
Dear Doug, I believe you are smarter then this.
Why defend yourselves? Why defending your religion? Why talk about the twin towers... Who cares about Zeitgeist being right or wrong. Just turn off your TV, close your bible and go out in nature... now sit down, look around you and meditate on our way of living. Can we keep living like this? Is it sustainable for our planet? Are we globally happy? Is everyone fed and free?
Zeitgeist is about constructing a better world. The Venus Project is one proposed solution. Its time we sit down together and discuss solutions, not problems or whose fault it is... love
It also state that the more you`ve been to school the less your able to think on your own.
Why is zeitgeistism so intolerant? Form me its only another way of atheism or satanism... Keep up with the God's job.
Regards from a catholic portuguese.
I couldn't agree more qith what 4tune said. Just think by yourself and let God out of the discussion: the planet is being destroyed, people are being ripped off, exploited so others can live like "Gods" or "Kings". Regardless of religion, which is only a choice based on faith and not scientific facts, let us notice that mankind is losing its sensibility to others due to our greed for power.
As of your "research" on Zeitgeist, I would like to see a SCIENTIFICALLY VALID AND APPROVED research on who wrote The Bible and how translations and interpretations have not changed or have the meaning of what's or had been written on it. I can´t imagine that after hundreds of scores of years the meaning might not have "changed" a bit.
Oh, agreed with one of the comments here "We, Christians" does not make you sound unbiased. it seems to me that you wasted all those years studying since your religion and your fear to die and not waking up being yourself and the promise that you'd live "forever" has blinded you from whatever you were taught at -I bet- religious institutions/universities.
yeah sorry, but for a Scholarly response, it has a feeling of preschoolarly..
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